Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/02/2012 04:30 PM House FISCAL POLICY


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04:35:23 PM Start
04:35:54 PM Presentation: Understanding Alaska's Budget
06:03:40 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Understanding Alaska's Budget TELECONFERENCED
by Information Insights
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISCAL POLICY                                                                          
                         April 2, 2012                                                                                          
                           4:35 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Anna Fairclough, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Alan Austerman                                                                                                   
Representative Bob Herron                                                                                                       
Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                     
Representative Tammie Wilson                                                                                                    
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Chris Tuck                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Craig Johnson (alternate)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION: UNDERSTANDING ALASKA'S BUDGET                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CADY LISTER, Senior Consultant                                                                                                  
Information Insights                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION    STATEMENT:       Presented   a    PowerPoint   titled                                                             
"Understanding Alaska's Budget."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SHANNA ZUSPAN, AICP                                                                                                             
Agnew::Beck                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION    STATEMENT:       Presented   a    PowerPoint   titled                                                             
"Understanding Alaska's Budget."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:35:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  ANNA  FAIRCLOUGH called  the  House  Special Committee  on                                                             
Fiscal  Policy meeting  to order  at 4:35  p.m.   Representatives                                                               
Fairclough, Kawasaki, T.  Wilson, and Herron were  present at the                                                               
call  to  order.   Representatives  Austerman,  Tuck, and  Pruitt                                                               
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
^Presentation: Understanding Alaska's Budget                                                                                    
          Presentation: Understanding Alaska's Budget                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
4:35:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH announced that the  only order of business would                                                               
be a presentation about Understanding Alaska's Budget.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:36:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CADY LISTER,  Senior Consultant, Information  Insights, explained                                                               
that   the   consulting    groups,   Information   Insights   and                                                               
Agnew::Beck,  were hired  to  "create a  toolbox  to assist  with                                                               
public understanding of the state  budget and to design a process                                                               
that would engage  the public in a meaningful  dialogue about our                                                               
fiscal  future."   She  shared that  this  toolbox resulted  from                                                               
recommendations  of  the  2010 Fiscal  Policy  working  group,  a                                                               
subcommittee of  the House Finance  Committee.  She  declared the                                                               
goal  of the  project  to be  an increase  of  the awareness  and                                                               
engagement for the  general public "and to provide  them with the                                                               
knowledge and tools  that they need to be able  to participate in                                                               
meaningful  dialogue  about  our  shared  fiscal  future."    She                                                               
explained that  this presentation was  phase one of  two distinct                                                               
phases, and was  covered under the current contract.   She shared                                                               
that  the second  phase, should  the legislature  decide to  move                                                               
forward with it,  would be to conduct the  public outreach effort                                                               
using these tools and designs created  in the current phase.  She                                                               
summarized phase  one, declaring  that there had  been completion                                                               
of  an  extensive  literature  review,  informant  interviews,  a                                                               
statewide  telephone  survey,  and testing  using  the  developed                                                               
material and  process.  She  noted that the remaining  tasks were                                                               
for integration  of the  committee's input  and training  for any                                                               
legislators and staff  who were interested in  using the material                                                               
and process for public meetings.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:39:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER suggested that the  public forums include content area                                                               
experts  to  explain  each  slide   in  the  presentation.    She                                                               
referenced  slide  2, "Meeting  Agenda"  and  explained that  the                                                               
basic agenda  was designed  for a three  hour presentation.   She                                                               
outlined   the   meeting  agenda   to   include,   in  order   of                                                               
presentation:     a  pre-survey   for  information   sharing  and                                                               
education, a question and answer  period, a small group exercise,                                                               
a report-out from each group, a  post survey, and a closing.  She                                                               
directed  attention  to the  more  detailed  agenda [Included  in                                                               
members' packets].                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:41:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER explained  that participants would be  asked to answer                                                               
a series of questions at the  beginning of each meeting, slide 3,                                                               
"Tell us what you think?"   She noted that an electronic audience                                                               
survey, ConSensor,  would be used  whenever possible,  although a                                                               
paper  copy would  also be  available.   She  specified that  the                                                               
participants   were  asked   about  preferences   and  priorities                                                               
regarding state  services, to  gauge the  level of  knowledge and                                                               
interest in Alaska's fiscal issues.   She shared that some of the                                                               
questions were  asked at both  the beginning  and the end  of the                                                               
meetings, to catalog  any change in response  from the additional                                                               
information and dialogue.  She  confirmed that the results of the                                                               
meetings  could  easily  be  summarized   and  analyzed  in  both                                                               
aggregate and locally.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:42:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  explained slide  4, "Fast  Draw," which  conveyed key                                                               
concepts necessary to  talk about Alaska's fiscal future  in a 90                                                               
second video.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:44:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER called  attention to  slide 5,  "Where does  Alaska's                                                               
Money come  from?" which covered revenue,  spending, savings, and                                                               
the  fiscal  gap, and  began  the  informational portion  of  the                                                               
public meeting slides.   She moved on to slide  6, "Oil Revenue,"                                                               
and  described that  the  three primary  sources  of revenue  for                                                               
Alaska's  money were  oil, federal  government,  and earnings  on                                                               
investments.  She stated that oil  revenue to the state was about                                                               
$9.2  billion in  FY  2012, more  than 50  percent  of the  total                                                               
revenue  and  nearly  90  percent  of  the  general  fund.    She                                                               
explained  that  the general  fund  was  the primary  source  for                                                               
payment of state services, and  that oil revenue was dependent on                                                               
the number  of barrels produced,  the price  of oil, and  the tax                                                               
structure imposed by the state.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:46:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER explained  that although  the federal  funds paid  to                                                               
Alaska were  about $3.1 billion in  FY 2012, about 20  percent of                                                               
the total revenue, they were  not included in the state's general                                                               
fund,  slide 7,  "Federal  Dollars."   She  detailed that  Alaska                                                               
received more  federal funding  per capita  than any  other state                                                               
and this  was an historically  stable funding stream  for Alaska.                                                               
She  clarified  that federal  money  was  for specific  purposes,                                                               
including  Medicare  and  large  infrastructure  projects.    She                                                               
opined that  the amount of  federal funding could  be jeopardized                                                               
in the future.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:47:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER moved  on to  slide 8,  "Savings &  Investments," and                                                               
remarked that  this was the  third source of revenue  for Alaska,                                                               
but it  was rarely used  to pay  for government operations.   She                                                               
pointed  out that  most  of  the earnings  revenue  was from  the                                                               
permanent fund,  and this was  used to pay dividends  and protect                                                               
the permanent  fund principal from  inflation.   Addressing slide                                                               
9, "All Other Revenue," she  reported that the remainder of state                                                               
revenue was  grouped into  other revenue,  which accounted  for 6                                                               
percent of the  total revenue and 9 percent of  the general fund.                                                               
She clarified  that some  of this revenue  was restricted,  to be                                                               
used  for  specific  purposes.   She  listed  the  other  revenue                                                               
sources  to   include  taxes  on  alcohol,   tobacco,  and  state                                                               
corporate income.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:48:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHANNA ZUSPAN,  AICP, Agnew::Beck, moved  on to slide  10, "Where                                                               
does Alaska's  Money go?"   She detailed that  Alaska's projected                                                               
expenditure  for  FY 2012  was  $13  billion, divided  into  four                                                               
categories,  as  shown  on  slide  11,  "Total  State  Spending":                                                               
operations,   which  included   statewide  expenses   and  agency                                                               
budgets,  66  percent;  capital  projects,  21  percent;  savings                                                               
payments, 8 percent; and permanent fund dividends, 5 percent.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:49:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  explained slide 12, "Per  Capita Spending," analyzing                                                               
that  Alaska spent  more per  Alaskan than  any other  state, and                                                               
reporting  that states  with  low populations  tended  to have  a                                                               
higher per capita spending.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:50:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  summarized slide 13,  "State Agency  Spending," which                                                               
depicted the  annual operating  and capital  budgets for  each of                                                               
the  18 state  departments.   Directing  attention  to slide  14,                                                               
"Budgets over  $1 Billion,"  she detailed  that the  four largest                                                               
state  agencies were  Department of  Health and  Social Services,                                                               
Department  of Education  and  Early  Development, Department  of                                                               
Transportation  &  Public  Facilities,   and  the  University  of                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:51:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZUSPAN, reviewing  slide  15,  "The last  10  years:   State                                                               
Operations," commented  on the increases to  agency expenses, for                                                               
both department  and statewide operating  costs.  Slide  16, "The                                                               
last 10 years:  Total  Spending," also depicted spending, but the                                                               
bar  graph  included  the  deposits   to  both  savings  and  the                                                               
permanent fund dividends.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:52:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  moved on to slide  17, "How much does  Alaska have in                                                               
Savings?" and  listed those savings:   the  constitutional budget                                                               
reserve,  the   permanent  fund  earnings,  the   permanent  fund                                                               
principal, and specialized state savings accounts.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:52:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  evaluated slide 18,  "Permanent Fund,"  which charted                                                               
the earnings of  the fund since 1978 to its  current principal of                                                               
$40  billion.    Explaining   slide  19,  "Constitutional  Budget                                                               
Reserve," she  shared that  the reserve was  a mechanism  used to                                                               
offset annual deficits, although it had to be re-paid.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:53:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZUSPAN, slide  20, "Other  Savings," stated  that there  was                                                               
$2.1 billion  in dedicated savings for  public education, revenue                                                               
sharing, and  power cost equalization funding;  and, another $4.6                                                               
billion in the statutory budget reserve for general use funding.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:54:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  spoke about  slide 21,  "What is  a fiscal  gap?" and                                                               
slide  22, "So  What's  the  problem?"   She  explained that  any                                                               
government could have a deficit  in years when revenue fell short                                                               
of expenses,  but that it  should be repaid  in good years.   She                                                               
defined fiscal  gap as  a persistent  or structural  deficit that                                                               
occurred when  the regular sources of  revenues were insufficient                                                               
for spending, even in good years.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:55:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER disclosed  that oil  production, which  paid for  the                                                               
majority  of  Alaska's  government  services  and  projects,  was                                                               
declining  while  the  state budget  was  increasing,  slide  23,                                                               
"Declining  Oil   Production"  and   slide  24,   "Declining  Oil                                                               
Revenue."   She declared that  high oil prices would  not protect                                                               
Alaska from declining oil production forever.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:56:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER  moved  on  to  slide  25,  "The  Future:    Spending                                                               
Projections,"  and  stated  that  the costs  of  government  were                                                               
expected to  increase at about  6 percent  per year.   She opined                                                               
that  solving  a  potential  fiscal gap  could  not  be  achieved                                                               
through  budget cuts  alone  without  destroying state  services.                                                               
Considering slide  26, "Unless  something changes,"  she declared                                                               
that Alaska's spending  would exceed its revenue in  the next few                                                               
years,  as reflected  on the  chart of  revenue from  FYs 2007  -                                                               
2021, and that the state would need to spend savings by FY 2015.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:57:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER, referring to slide 27,  "Fiscal Gap: What can we do?"                                                               
shared  that   although  there  was  still   some  time,  current                                                               
projections  showed that  savings would  be spent  by 2030.   She                                                               
emphasized that this  expenditure of savings did  not include the                                                               
principal of the permanent fund.   She listed some options, which                                                               
included:  encourage  new oil exploration, support  a natural gas                                                               
pipeline, use the permanent fund  earnings, develop other natural                                                               
resources,  bring back  personal income  tax, create  a statewide                                                               
sales tax,  tax other  industries, increase  savings now  for the                                                               
future, and cut the budget.   She declared it to be very unlikely                                                               
to find  a "silver bullet"  solution, that it would  take efforts                                                               
to both increase  the revenue and reduce the  growth of spending.                                                               
She  established that  these slides  were the  framework for  the                                                               
information and education portions of the public meetings.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:59:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN announced that, after  the question and answer session                                                               
in the  public meetings,  the small  group exercise  would begin,                                                               
slide  29,  "Small  group  business   planning  exercise."    She                                                               
explained that they  would form into small groups,  and engage in                                                               
a   business  planning   activity.     She  described   that  the                                                               
distributed worksheets allowed the groups  to make changes to the                                                               
current  budget  structure,   while  following  certain  attached                                                               
rules, and  pointed out some  of the strategies  and alternatives                                                               
that would be available.  She  then detailed ways to identify new                                                               
revenue  sources and  apply  them to  the  budget, including  the                                                               
building of a  pipeline, the creation of a sales  tax, or the use                                                               
of permanent  fund earnings for  state services.   At the  end of                                                               
the  break-out session,  each  group would  report  to the  other                                                               
groups, and determine the impacts from these decisions.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:03:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER finished  up with slide 31, "Tell us  what you think?"                                                               
and discussed the  post-meeting survey.  She shared  that some of                                                               
the questions  were similar to  those asked prior to  the meeting                                                               
in order to reflect any changes for issues or preferences.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZUSPAN, offering  suggestions  for the  future  use of  this                                                               
information,  proposed  informal   constituent  meetings,  formal                                                               
public meetings throughout  the state, or a  fiscal policy summit                                                               
of participants in the public  meetings.  This meeting would take                                                               
these suggestions and provide recommendations.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:06:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH opened discussion.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:06:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON stated  her appreciation that the public                                                               
did not have to stay for  the entire [three] hour meeting and she                                                               
asked about the timing of the small group exercise.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  explained that  the small  group exercise  would take                                                               
place after the 45 minutes allocated to the worksheets.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:07:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON  expressed  his praise  for  the  proposed                                                               
public meeting agenda and its  toolbox approach for better public                                                               
understanding.   He  offered his  belief that  while some  people                                                               
would stay  for the entire  exercise, others would just  "want to                                                               
come and sort of catch the flavor."   He asked if it was possible                                                               
to offer  a snapshot for  anyone who was  not able to  attend for                                                               
the entire three hours.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:09:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  directed attention to the  accompanying website which                                                               
offered  much more  in-depth information  than the  presentation.                                                               
She stated  that there were  also materials at the  meeting which                                                               
people could take.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:09:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZUSPAN pointed  out that  there was  a break  in the  agenda                                                               
between  the presentation  and  the  business planning  exercise,                                                               
which allowed for an easy exit.   She shared that a similar three                                                               
hour presentation had fully engaged the participants.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:10:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH explained that this  was an opportunity to focus                                                               
the information  and visual materials for  legislators to present                                                               
in  their  communities.    She  opined  that  these  choices  for                                                               
additional  economic  investments  should  be  addressed  "sooner                                                               
rather than later  for the health of Alaska's economy  as well as                                                               
the health and well-being of the people of Alaska."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:11:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN asked  if  the  proposed website  would                                                               
contain this same information.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER replied  that it would contain this, as  well as other                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN,  using  examples of  the  presentation                                                               
that needed  explanation, expressed concern that  people visiting                                                               
the website  could not get their  questions answered immediately.                                                               
He  specified  that  the definition  for  savings  was  sometimes                                                               
confused with earnings.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH advised  that the ability to click  on a picture                                                               
on the website would allow access to background information.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:14:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HERRON  recommended   use   of  the   previously                                                               
presented video, "fast draw," as a background explanation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:14:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN,   directing  attention  to   slide  8,                                                               
"Savings  & Investments,"  suggested that  the proportion  of the                                                               
piggy bank  be more  closely aligned  to the  actual size  of the                                                               
savings.  In reference to slide  9, "All Other Revenue," he noted                                                               
that expansion of the economic base should also be included.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:15:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH directed  attention to  slide 27,  "Fiscal Gap:                                                               
What can  we do?"  and proposed to  re-prioritize the  choices on                                                               
the list, with  "Cut the Budget" moving closer to  the top of the                                                               
list from  the bottom  of the  list.   She reiterated  that there                                                               
were choices for additional revenue and budget cuts.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:16:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN  clarified that there was  still time to                                                               
react to  the future needs.   He offered  his belief that  it was                                                               
important to  discuss the creation  of new industries  in Alaska,                                                               
and not to focus solely on the increase of taxes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:16:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON, directing  attention  to  slide 25,  "The                                                               
Future:    Spending  Projections,"  reflecting that  it  was  too                                                               
general,  asked  what  was  true   inflation  when  a  6  percent                                                               
projected rise in operating cost was factored.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:18:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  suggested the addition  of a tab at  the bottom                                                               
showing actual inflation rates or  the consumer price index.  She                                                               
pointed  out  that  non-negotiable   contracts  were  drivers  to                                                               
significant increases in the state operating budget.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HERRON opined  that there  was no  one factor  to                                                               
generalize the  use of 6  percent as  the percent of  annual cost                                                               
increase.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH,   observing  that  labor  was   a  significant                                                               
percentage of the  operating budget, asked if there  was any data                                                               
for  the  actual increase  of  wages.    She declared  that  non-                                                               
bargaining unit  wages were under  consideration for  an increase                                                               
when the bargaining unit contracts were increased.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:21:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN  requested that  another graph  show the                                                               
increase  to  state  operating   costs  based  solely  on  Alaska                                                               
inflation.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:22:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK, reflecting on  the Anchorage School District                                                               
budget,  reported  that  the two  most  significant  factors  for                                                               
increases  were  energy and  PERS/TERS.    He opined  that  these                                                               
increased exponentially  faster than any other  expenses.  Noting                                                               
that Alaska's  energy costs were  significant, he  suggested that                                                               
the graph for  inflation increases include a  comparison with the                                                               
national rate,  as well.   He asked  about the increased  cost of                                                               
health care.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:23:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  explained that the  projected 6 percent  increase was                                                               
the publicized forecast of high  level spending growth from David                                                               
Teal,  Legislative Finance  Division,  and she  offered to  delve                                                               
into this for more key components.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  shared that, although the  PERS/TERS obligation                                                               
had been  "held flat  at 22 percent,"  the anticipated  growth of                                                               
health care costs was increasing  the contribution level from the                                                               
state.    She opined  that  this  obligation  would "top  off  at                                                               
somewhere around $1  billion of annual payments."   She confirmed                                                               
that this one  allocation would be a significant  percentage of a                                                               
$9.6 billion budget.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:25:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK,  directing attention  to slide  14, "Budgets                                                               
over  $1 billion,"  asked to  clarify that  the funding  for each                                                               
department was  reflective of  the general  fund percentage  as a                                                               
total of  the department budget  and not  as a percentage  of the                                                               
total general  fund.   He moved  on to slide  22, "So  What's the                                                               
Problem?" and stated  that this would be  better illustrated with                                                               
a curve  similar to that  on slide 23.   He asked that  slide 23,                                                               
"Declining  Oil   Production,"  and  slide  24,   "Declining  Oil                                                               
Revenue," be  combined to show  the production, revenue,  and oil                                                               
price on one page.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:27:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  suggested a  drop  down  box to  provide  more                                                               
information that the  public might request on  oil production and                                                               
operating costs.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:28:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LISTER  confirmed  that  there were  more  graphics  on  the                                                               
proposed website,  and that "story  telling pop up boxes  so that                                                               
you  have  to  view  the  images in  a  certain  order"  were  an                                                               
excellent tool to show how it will all come together.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:29:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  expressed his agreement  with Representative                                                               
Austerman that  the presentation  show the option  for developing                                                               
new industries as a source of  revenue.  He reflected on the need                                                               
for low  interest loans  to fund new  energy projects  instead of                                                               
"giving the money  away."  He opined that this  revenue from loan                                                               
re-payments would  allow Alaska to  finance more projects  in the                                                               
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:30:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  expressed  her agreement  with  Representative                                                               
Tuck.    Musing  about  private business  partnerships  with  the                                                               
state,  in order  for the  state to  have a  rate of  return, she                                                               
opined  that  the private  community  would  have concerns  about                                                               
competition   with  other   private  businesses   in  negotiating                                                               
partnerships  with  the  state,  even  though  the  appropriation                                                               
process allowed for this selective support by the state.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:31:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON asked if  the complete on-line presentation                                                               
package would work in regions with slow or no broadband.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  replied that  although the  website was  designed for                                                               
rural communities, it was not intended  to be used as part of the                                                               
public meeting process.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:32:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH  clarified that  the  presentation  would be  a                                                               
paper product, available anywhere in the state.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:33:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  offered his  agreement that  the information                                                               
should be quickly available.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:33:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH noted  that slide  12,  "Per Capita  Spending,"                                                               
should be footnoted  that it was FY 2012 and  it included capital                                                               
and operating spending.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN clarified  that slide 12 conveyed  information from FY                                                               
2010, and she would report  back whether it reflected capital and                                                               
operating spending.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:34:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER,  in response  to Representative  Austerman, explained                                                               
the  conundrum  in  defining   whether  state  spending  included                                                               
distribution of dividend  checks, or placement of  funds into the                                                               
reserve account.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN  offered his  belief that this  could be                                                               
confusing to the public.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:35:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZUSPAN  proposed a  change to the  slide description  to read                                                               
"spending on savings and dividends."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:35:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH recommended  inclusion of  "permanent fund  and                                                               
savings" as spending.   She explained that,  although these items                                                               
were considered spending by an  accountant, they were budgeted as                                                               
savings by state legislators.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:37:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  asked  to   clarify  whether  "spending  on                                                               
savings"  included the  permanent fund  dividend and  other state                                                               
savings accounts.   He posed that the permanent  fund dividend be                                                               
listed as a separate category.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:38:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  submitted that  a drop  down box  could clarify                                                               
the details.   She asked if the enhanced  technical details would                                                               
affect access to the website for Rural Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:39:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON, declaring the  importance for clarity with                                                               
the initial  slide, pronounced  that his  constituents considered                                                               
the permanent fund to be a dividend, not an expense.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:40:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH advocated  to  use "share"  instead of  "spend"                                                               
when describing the distribution of the permanent fund dividend.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:40:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN,   directing  attention  to   slide  8,                                                               
"Savings & Investments,"  advised a change of  title to "Earnings                                                               
&  Investments."   He opined  that the  permanent fund  generated                                                               
earnings on investments, and not savings.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:41:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FAIRCLOUGH,  referring  to  slide 8,  submitted  that  the                                                               
graphic for  the piggy  bank be  a size  to visually  reflect the                                                               
relative size of  the earnings.  She emphasized that  it was also                                                               
necessary to  clarify that  there was limited  access to  some of                                                               
the  savings  accounts,  such  as  the  permanent  fund  and  the                                                               
constitutional    budget   reserve.       She    concurred   with                                                               
Representative Austerman for  a change of wording  to "Earnings &                                                               
Investments."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:42:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  observed that it  was necessary to  carefully present                                                               
the permanent fund in order  to not "overwhelm the conversation."                                                               
She agreed that the determination  of permanent fund dividends as                                                               
spending was  tricky because  they were  a source  of operational                                                               
revenue.   She offered  her belief  that, although  most Alaskans                                                               
did not  realize that the  permanent fund earnings could  be used                                                               
for government  operations, it  was important  for them  to grasp                                                               
how the earnings could be used.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK, referring  to slide  12, proposed  deleting                                                               
the second paragraph, "If you  include "spending" on savings, the                                                               
figure is $17,000 per person."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:45:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN,  referring  to slide  5,  "Where  does                                                               
Alaska's Money come from?" put  forward that "savings" in the pie                                                               
graph be  replaced by "earnings."   He noted that  the "earnings"                                                               
in  the  pie  graph  could  be further  divided  to  reflect  the                                                               
spending of those earnings.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:45:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRUITT agreed  that clarification  was necessary,                                                               
to recognize that the money was coming from investments.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:46:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH indicated  that the permanent fund  was not part                                                               
of  a  discussion  for  fiscal   policy  and  planning,  and  she                                                               
emphasized  that  there was  not  any  current consideration  for                                                               
accessing the  permanent fund.   Recapping that,  although annual                                                               
investments were to  ensure the longevity of  the permanent fund,                                                               
Alaskans could choose  to use permanent fund  earnings to provide                                                               
for state government.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN clarified  that,  although  he did  not                                                               
want to spend  the permanent fund, it needed to  be treated as an                                                               
asset.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH, referring to slide  12, offered her belief that                                                               
it  was necessary  to  inform  Alaskans for  how  much was  being                                                               
invested in  Alaska to provide  for Alaskans.  She  proposed that                                                               
the  silhouetted figures  at the  bottom of  the slide  represent                                                               
areas of expense and allocation.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:49:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRUITT submitted  that  slide  13, "State  Agency                                                               
Spending," also have graphic representations  for the spending by                                                               
each agency.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  offered her belief that  Alaskans valued health                                                               
care,  and wanted  to  ensure access  to the  health  care.   She                                                               
questioned  how  to illustrate  the  cost  and the  unsustainable                                                               
trajectory of health costs based on revenue.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:51:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LISTER  reflected that while  health care and  education were                                                               
both   highly  valued   in  the   survey,  there   was  a   clear                                                               
understanding  that they  were quite  costly to  the state.   She                                                               
expressed agreement  that the  cost of  health care  was somewhat                                                               
underestimated by Alaskans.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:52:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZUSPAN referenced  slide 13,  "State  Agency Spending,"  and                                                               
explained  that  the  original  format  was  a  pie  chart  which                                                               
included budget and revenue source  for each department; however,                                                               
the focus  group had spent too  much time trying to  decipher it.                                                               
She pointed out that slide 13,  and slide 14, "The Last 10 Years:                                                               
State  Operations," were  a result  of this  response.   Per this                                                               
experience,  she opined  that too  many graphics  could overwhelm                                                               
the message.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:53:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  AUSTERMAN  referenced  a   chart  that  had  been                                                               
presented  by David  Teal,  Legislative  Finance Division,  which                                                               
used a  line graph to depict  year by year inflation,  along with                                                               
"those  two  big elephants  in  the  room,"  the decline  in  oil                                                               
production and the  increase in operating costs.   In response to                                                               
Ms. Lister, he  said that audiences were  immediately impacted by                                                               
this chart.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:54:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH,  referring to slide 12,  "Per Capita Spending,"                                                               
suggested it  show that the "lion's  share of our budget"  was to                                                               
the Departments  of Education and  Early Development,  Health and                                                               
Social Services, and Transportation & Public Facilities.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:54:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON opined that it  was difficult to explain to                                                               
ordinary people that the increase  in oil revenue was masking the                                                               
decline  in   oil  production,  while  they   were  making  daily                                                               
decisions between the  purchase of food or fuel.   He offered his                                                               
belief  that  Alaskans  had lost  their  share  of  discretionary                                                               
spending.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:56:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRUITT  stated that  this presentation was  a good                                                               
baseline  and could  be utilized.    He opined  that the  general                                                               
public  needed  more information  to  better  understand the  key                                                               
pieces.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:58:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN  indicated his  desire to convey  to the                                                               
public an understanding  for the sources of revenue  and that, as                                                               
these  were non-renewable,  action  would be  necessary to  "fill                                                               
that  gap that's  going  to  be created  and  be  prepared."   He                                                               
reflected  on  the necessity  for  determining  the new  business                                                               
climate and the new tax base.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:59:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  expressed his appreciation for  the process,                                                               
declaring  that motivation  resulted from  education.   He opined                                                               
that the  dialogue would  achieve good  solutions for  the state,                                                               
that  constituents,   especially  those   who  did   not  usually                                                               
participate,   would  attend   these  presentations   and  become                                                               
involved.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:00:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FAIRCLOUGH  suggested a change  to the background  color of                                                               
the  graphics to  better  accommodate  reproduction on  non-color                                                               
copiers.   She summarized  that the purpose  of this  meeting had                                                               
been  for  direction  toward   finalizing  this  presentation  of                                                               
Alaska's finances in the future.   She asked that any comments be                                                               
remitted to her office by April 9.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:03:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special Committee on Fiscal Policy  meeting was adjourned at 6:03                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            

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